Coming from a strictly traditional piano playing background, up until just recently, I never explored the idea of utilizing a 'volume pedal' for playing organ and other voices on the arranger, of which I'm sure would be most beneficial to start learning..

So how did the idea now (after all these years) to use a 'volume pedal' suddenly come up now? I just recently purchased the 'Jimmy Smith Organ Pack' voice collection for Tyros 4 from Sounds For Keys. The collection is around 180mb and substantially larger than the samples included in the premium voice pak collection offerings from Yamaha, and believe me, the Jimmy Smith Pack's impressive ballsy B3 sound reflects this. Well worth the money imo. Kudos to Richard Postma at Sounds For Keys for producing this nice B3 collection. If you enjoy the sound of a Hammond B3 as I do, this pack if for you. Compared to the Tyros 4's onboard digital drawbars , this Jimmy Smith Pack is imho a significant cut above them, much richer, fuller, sounding far less compressed than the later, plus, as much as I appeciate the B3 demos on their site, the actually sound heard when played on the Tyros 4 sounds far more impressive because the demo audio quality is only 192kbs.

Ok, to get back on the 'volume pedal' topic. My SZ buddy Ian McNeill told me he just bought a Yamaha FC7 Volume Pedal for his T4 and highly recommended utilizing one, so last night I dug thru my closet and found the Boss FV-50 Volume Pedal I had received years ago as a Christmas gift but never got around to using. I connected it up to my Tyros 4 and thru trial & error & some experimentation got some nice sounding results, but now I realize I need to learn some established volume pedal techniques to realistically emulate specific instrument voices. I've heard that some people, in addition to organ, use it for strings, pedal steel guitar, and sax voices etc, so I'm hoping people here with volume pedal experience will share tips and advice on how to best utilize it for different instrument voices. All Volume Pedal playing tips shared greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. - Scott

Hey Scott - here's one euro organ tip for you.
German organs don't route everything through the volume pedal. So, if you want to get that Klaus wunderlich or Franz Lambert feel to your organ sounds, PRESS DIRECT ACCESS AND AT THE SAME TIME MOVE THE VOLUME PEDAL.

On the screen you will see the options to turn the pedal off or on on certain parts. Turn EVERYTHING OFF - except your right hand melody - let the volume control take care of that.

So now when you play, you have NO control over the volume of the backing but the organ only. You can now add an extra level of depth by increasing the volume and decreasing the volume with your pedal. Great for ballads - all some real emotion.

That's my tip 1 for the day.

Enjoy!

This kind of gets me thinking about using an "expression pedal" for my Tyros 2 like when I was doing organ. It's a lot of fun and really adds a lot of emotion to the music.

To me inflection is what music is all about and using an expression pedal can make a huge difference in the feeling you can put out.

In general as the melody line goes up give it more gas. When the melody line descends back off. You can also hit a note or chord, back off and then crescendo, then end abruptly, or if its' a long note you could also decrescendo to a whisper.

I think you will find it easiest if you think like a horn player, a horn section or the horn sections of a big band. The whole band you will find changes volume together. To me not having the volume of the rest of the band change also would take away from the emotional impact, unless you were trying for a special effect.

You can use the pedal not only for organ, but just about any instrument. Strings, solo horn, horn sections, not just organ. But it's the same approach.

Happened to think of this arrangement where the whole band goes through a wide range of volume, from section to section, while adding one section over the other. Note especially when Maynard goes up in the back row with the rest of the trumpets how they milk those dynamic changes. Notice how the whole band changes volume including the drums, not just the top voice{s}.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHpMIbcEBvY

I will have to admit that Maynard had THE most exciting band I have ever heard live. The ups and down of volume, phrasing, delayed vibrato, bending notes all together was astounding.

There are some great organists that did the same thing. If I think of one I'll put some up. I often used an organ sound trying to emulate say a trumpet section etc.

Have fun with this. This can add so much to a song.

Scott

Earl Grant was one of the organists I was trying to remember. He was a the master of using the expression pedal. Notice how subtly he would increase the volume starting at about 1:08 when the melody notes changed in between the long notes. BTW, all those bird sounds he's doing manually on the Hammond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXFuitMMxo4

Hi ScottYee

The organ has no dynamics of its own, so think of the pedal as adding dynamic expression to the organ. (Most electronic organs have expression pedals not volume pedals, as while they do the same, the expression name indicates how they should be used)

Acoustic instruments:
Are different in that you have to think what the real instrument can do, as an example:
You have a pre-set that contains 2 layers, (1 Piano and 2 Strings) now by default the expression pedal will alter the volume of both simultaneously, however a piano cannot do this and so it sounds unnatural, therefore turn the pedal off for the piano and leave it on just for the strings, now when you play you can bring the strings in and out with your expression pedal at any level you want, just like in a real Piano and String orchestra.

Orchestral:
Not all instruments can vary their volume by the same amount, (A clarinet does not have the same volume range as the string section) and by setting the expression pedal to have less effect on one voice (Clarinet) compared to another, (Strings) you get a much more realistic representation.

Mixing:
Set the brass section as normal, but set the strings in reverse, (Maximum volume of the strings occur with the volume down) you can now switch between the brass and string section (Or merge the 2 together) by moving the expression pedal forward and back. (Just like real bands do)

Electronic/synth:
Whatever you want to do (Just remember what the synth you are emulating can do)

I hope the above gives you some ideas, however the best way is to listen to real music played by real people and see how the different instruments interact, then set up your expression pedal to do the same.

Bill

Very good post Bill

Bernie

First, I want to thank Scott for bringing up this topic, and I hope someone else gets something from the replies posted, as well me learning some tips and tricks.

So far, I've been setting it up the way Leigh has suggested, although I don't use a lower manual, at least at present.

I come from many years of Hammond and Yamaha Electone experience, so I am no stranger to using a volume pedal, plus I used these types of pedals in the various bands I played in when I used multiple synthesisers, samplers, and other keyboard instruments.

Leigh's method, which I actually tried first, and still use, seems to be the most ideal, although Scott Langholff's method is a great way to use it as well. I'd like to keep the accompaniment at the same level for now, as the style variations give me a good degree of color changing (I use my own edited styles) and I like the overall sound when I use the pedal in this way. Bill's ideas are great as well, and very thorough.

One thing for sure, the volume pedal adds expression not possible with just velocity and aftertouch...I guess that's why it's often referred to as an "expression" pedal.

Being able to have the volume of a note swell after the initial key press is so valuable with most instruments, such as wind, strings, brass etc. The organ, of course, really needs the volume pedal, in my opinion. Also, with the volume pedal, it is possible to eliminate the "attack" portion of a note, which is handy for pedal steel and a few other situations.

I got away from using a volume pedal when velocity sensitivity (and aftertouch) became common...but, now I realize I was missing something important, especially after spending the past few days using it.

I'm not sure in the way others actually activate it, but for me, the volume pedal has to be done by the Right Foot...I can't, for the life of me, get any satisfactory performance using my Left Foot. Now, I'm retraining myself to use the sustain pedal with my left foot; it's no big deal, as I used to do this with other keyboard setups, but it'll take some practice.

Has anyone else had the same experience?

Thank you all for the wonderful replies so far, and I will try out some of the suggestions and see if they work well for me.

Ian the Grateful

I have attached an MP3 of our Friend Alan Paganelli playing an 'organ' on a T-1 using a volume expression pedal.

Notice that he did not 'over use' the volume pedal. Like Dr. J once said..."Just let it flow"

Both great posts.

Question guys. How do you both approach using the sustain pedal while using the Volume/Expression pedal?


Ian the Curious



PS....Leigh, with the Tyros4, I find it most beneficial to just lower the accompaniment volume to around 80, rather than adjust all the RH stuff.

+1 to Ian's question.

In addition, coming from a background as a trad piano player who relies on the sustain pedal for sustaining notes, and simply using key pressure to affect volume , I'd like to know how to orchestrate these features together, especially for sounds (voices) that respond to either key pressure and/or volume pedal such as strings and sax. When do you call on the 'volume pedal' vs 'key pressure velocity', to augment, or takeover the task of increasing/decreasing volume?

I've always had the volume ped attached to my secondary RH sound only, and when I used it to bring in strings or choirs, it's right next to my sustain ped, so it was easy to flip back and forth. For organ or brass use - most times, I no longer required the sustain, so I rest fully on the volume for expression. In most cases, I don't use the ped unless I know I will be doing alot of organ leads, and that's rare in my dance jobs.

For a jazzier, more intimate crowd - it's a great addition.

Hi Scottyee,

And for the benefit of others, there are a few differences between a volume pedal and an expression pedal. First a volume pedal is designed to sit in-line of the signal path from the output of the instrument to the input on the amplifier. It varies the signal level delivered to the amplifier.
An expression pedal is designed to connect to an expression pedal socket on the back of a keyboard or other instrument and vary the volume of the instrument (or parts of the instrument if it is capable of designating the expression controller to parts) before it is delivered to the outputs of the instrument, or it's internal amplifier and speaker setup where available.

The pedal you have Scottyee is an inline volume pedal. There are two varieties of FV50; L or H. As the names suggest one is for Low impedance signals (such as keyboards and other line level devices) whilst the H model is for high impedance signals (such as electric guitars.)

The later FV500L and H model can both be used as an expression pedal, as it has a suitable connector for this purpose, and an in-line volume pedal.

Some expression pedal models such as the EV5 or EV7 from Roland/Boss have a knob on them for setting a minimum volume level too. This restricts the active area of the sweep in the pedal, so that you never make the setting too low.

The Yamaha FC7 is an expression pedal.

My history with expression pedals really comes from using Yamaha Electone organs since the 70's. These would vary the overall master volume output of the whole instrument. I now however use an EV5 occasionally, but (when using it with a G70) get a lot from initial touch, particulalry when using dynamic arranger also. This reduces significantly the need for an expression pedal. As has been mentioned, earlier examples such as those on an Electone were designed to give the player dynamic control where none was available from the action. Touch sensitive keys only became available on affordable Electones from the FC/FE/FS/FX series of the early 80's. Certainly early Hammond organs did not have touch sensitivity either.

Great stuff, David...thanks. I was also thinking it would be great having the Strings of a Piano/Strings layer under volume control, especially in full keyboard mode.

In the rare instances where you need both sustain and volume, how do you manage?

Ian

Ian,
It's a bit of a juggling act sometimes, but the more important task usually takes the lead ... the gradual crescendo of the strings may mask the absence of sustain till you have time to switch back. Another fabulous layering effect I've used is a velocity triggered tympani to a piano/string patch ... only the very loudest notes make the drum sound heard, and it is SO cool when it comes in on cue. Very dynamic for show tunes and power ballads.
Gotta run ..... the big band goes on in just about an hour!
(it's SO nice just walking in, hanging my Bari on my neck and walking up to the mic stand! I was the leader or soloist for so long, I forgot how nice it is to NOT have to set up the PA!)

Yes, David...the Piano/Strings/ Timpani is one I use, especially now, with the Tyros4, I can layer three RH voices...one of Yamaha's factory string patches, called "Tutti" has velocity controlled timpani on the lower part of the key range. Great for tunes like Space Odyssey etc.

Have a good gig.

Ian

I just got in from my big band job. Here's how it played out:
(I feel so guilty!)
6:30-7 ... we ate from the raw bar and drank from the real bar ... on the house
7-7:30 a DJ started playing some background stuff while we ate butler-ed goodies like Bacon wrapped scallops, and crab balls. Mmmm
7:30 - the band got up and played 2 songs until the MC was ready for us to start the program - we played "God Bless America", then sat down to a surf & turf dinner ( I know ... nice work, if you can get it)
7:30 till 8:45 or so, they gave out awards and made announcements till coffee and dessert was served.
8:45-9:30 more DJ
9:30 we go on stage - play one hour till 10:30. Exhausted, we break again and let the DJ take over for 1/2 hour
One more set till almost midnight and we're done! It was like vacation. I almost feel like I own them money.

These are the cushy ones ..... than goodness they come along once in a while to make us feel like big shots!

I'm tickled that you had a great gig, David, and you were well fed.

Now, let's get back on topic about the volume pedal...I am very interested, as is Scott, on how, when, where, and why people use them with their arrangers (and related gear).

Ian

So then is the Boss FV50L the right/wrong pedal to be using with Tyros 4 for controling organ voice volume and expression? Should I be using a Yamaha FC7 instead?

Thing is that when I connect one of the Boss FV50L's 2 outputs into my Tyros 4's footpedal controller socket #2 it seems to work at increasing and decreasing the volume of whatever specific part(s): RH1, RH2, RH3, LT, I have assigned to foot controller #2. How does the Yamaha FC7 function differently?


My Boss FV50L includes this minimum volume adjustable knob too.

After what Sweentech1 posted, I'm now confused whether the Bosa FV50L I'm using is adequate or if need to puchase a Yamaha FC7 now. Please advise. Thanks. - Scott

First.....
I would NOT perform without my expression pedal.....also my sustain too....all my registrations are basically calibrated to my way of playing, and that is using the Volume/Expression pedal.
Coming from an Organ background, pedals also with footswitches in the sides are a second nature for me, I like the Ketron volume pedal http://www.ketron.com/itemdetails.asp?mod=TP
To bad that has a proprietary connectors, non standard that would allow to be use with other instruments of other brands.
I loved to use this pedal when I had my X1HD and the SD1, both keyboards could be controlled with just one pedal, I really like it a LOT, besides been almost indestructible.

I always have use "volume" pedals, and for advise, I had BAD luck with the Yamaha FC7, I must have a half a dozen that came apart eventually, so far, I would NOT recommend this pedal to no one.
I also had tried the Signal volume pedals like the Korg XVP10, that also has a dynamic control potentiometer, they work OK, until start making some noise after a couple years, very well constructed and heavy duty too.

Believe or not, I had better luck with some old GEM volume pedals, but, eventually they go bad, since they are the cheaply made.
I also purchased the ALesis F2, similar to the Korg but it has a half way, then a spring action gets the volume pedal to that half point, this is by the way, also a signal pedal with the dynamic control. I did not get use to it, so is in a closet.

I hope somebody makes a USB Expression pedal that use a photocell to control the Volume with a LED instead of the conventional light bulb, much like the old Hammond organs, to ME seems the best dynamic and durable option just bringing it to the 21st Century.

Thanks for posting, Mdorantes. What kind of volume pedal do you use presently?

I have used Yamaha FC7 over the years, and have not had any issues whatsoever...that's why I bought the same model again for my Tyros4.

Do you recommend the Boss FV50L that Scott Yee is using? Is it more durable than most?

How do you set up your volume and sustain? When needing both, do you use your right foot on volume, and left foot on sustain, or the reverse?

How do you set up what the pedal controls...right hand voices only, the whole instrument, or some other way?

Ian

Scott...I believe you are using your FV50L in the proper way...according to Sweetie, the pedal can be used as an expression pedal, by connecting the way that you have done with your Tyros4. You don't need to buy an FC-7...save your money for those PEI mussels.

Ian

Hi Ian

The Wersi Expression pedal that I use has a toe switch on either side of it, and I just program these to do whatever I want and store the settings in the pre-set, so sustain is easily achievable without taking my foot off the pedal.

Bill

Hi Scottyee

The FV50L is not actually designed for how you are using it, but if it works then I wouldn't bother changing. At the end of the day, they all just have a pot inside them adjusting the volume if it were a master volume controller on the keyboard. The one I was saying had a dedicated expression socket was the FV500L not the FV50L (which doesn't have it) but as I say... if it works then there is no problem.

John

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCV100.aspx

This is your absolute best bang for the buck, bar none. It will do what you want, is extremely well built, and I only paid $25.00 for mine. I still use it with my C1 when I choose not to carry my PK7a pedalboard along. The Pk7a has an integrated EXPRESSION pedal (organs do use 'volume' pedals ) as well as two other (assignable) switches mounted on either side of the expression pedal. I can't get used to the side switches (intended for Leslie control) and use a 'half-moon' switch instead (B3 style).

Here's an idea; learn to play pedals (bass) and get a PK7a.

chas

For those of us who play bass pedals, the PK7a is a nice unit, however, I 'm really lazy and I'd rather have the accompaniment do it for me...besides, I don't like using those side switches for sustain...they're great for other functions like Leslie speed etc, but I'd find it easier re-learning to use my left foot for the sustain.

Plus, if you stand up playing, using bass pedals isn't an option.

To each his own, I guess...so far the FC-7 is still proving the best for my needs. It also has an angle adjustment for use when standing.

My favorite sustain pedal is the Roland DP-10, which has the rubber heel flap...what a clever rig it is.


Ian

Jeez Ian, I wasn't REALLY advocating that Scott use a PK7a for his needs; I recommended the Behringer unit, the rest was just a half-joke. I use bass pedals because the organ is my primary instrument. If I played arranger exclusively, I wouldn't use bass pedals either. No need to.

chas

I know Chas, I got your drift...I believe learning bass pedals at this stage of the game, is like learning to play drums...

Smileys aren't necessary for some half-jokes, but they do help (at least in my case...duh!).

From reading posts here on SZ, Behringer stuff is either loved or hated...I've never used their products.

I sent you a PM with info on the new Hammond SK2, in case you haven't seen/heard it yet.

Ian

I googled it after seeing your reference to it. I have mixed feelings after reading some of the reviews, but I am pretty sure I would not trade my C1 for one. Bottom line; if it sounded as good as the XKc3 or C1/C2, had TWO sets of drawbars (3 with bass) and STILL weighed in at 35 lbs., I'd trade for one. The consensus seems to be that it does not sound that great. From the demos I heard, I'd have to agree.

chas

The lack of two sets of drawbars wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but, so far, it doesn't sound as good as the XK3c to me either...that would be a deal breaker.

I believe the local store will bring one in, since of of the sales guys is an organist, so I will have a chance to try one out.

Ian

Check out my video in the Yamaha Freestyle Performance Contest and you will see that the FC7 foot-switch is a key part of my performance. I use it to add vibrato to organs, wahwah to guitars, growl to sax, falls to brass. I don't perform without it. Please don't forget to vote for me in the semi-finals!

www.yamaha.com/freestyle